Thread: Shoobie Doobie Asagi

Originally Posted by nessmuck

I think i had too many drams tonite to figure out the above statement

DRAMs??

Dynamic random access memory

Originally Posted by DrNaka

I do not think that there are 2 schools.

By 2 schools I just meant those who want the smoothest finish on their stones & those that can get the same result with light scratches on their stones.


Now lets go back to the lapping and smoothing discussion of hard Jnats.

Onimaru-san knows that a smooth surface is needed for final lapping.
He writes:


So he knows that DMT #325 makes bigger scratches, a new Atoma 1200 medium scratches, a 7 month old make smaller scratches and the very old Atoma 1200 is best of all.

This experience and observation is in line what I am saying. You must have a smooth surface of the stone.

I completely agree here

Oniomaru-san writes also:


This is the same as I write the softer the stone more tolerance to scratches made by diamonds.

This is also true

If you have a very hard stone like the very hard shoubu discussed in this thread I recommend to make the surface as smooth as possible.

Well, here is where I would prefer to say "make the surface as smooth as necessary" rather than "smooth as possible".
I don't know how hard this particular shoubu is as it is a long way from where I live but I know my Nakayama Asagi (pictured above) is very hard & as I said before I have tried both ways with this stone & the Atoma 1200 is perfectly adequate as a slurry stone in 99% of cases. I am allowing for some error as there are no absolutes

DrNaka san, thank you for your explanations. I know we are mostly in agreement just not completely

Originally Posted by onimaru55

DrNaka san, thank you for your explanations. I know we are mostly in agreement just not completely

yes

I don't know how hard this particular shoubu is as it is a long way from where I live but I know my Nakayama Asagi (pictured above) is very hard & as I said before I have tried both ways with this stone & the torn Atoma 1200 is perfectly adequate as a slurry stone in 99% of cases.

I added torn

Originally Posted by DrNaka

DRAMs??

Dynamic random access memory

Drams of Scotch ( the good Drams )

Originally Posted by DrNaka

I added torn

Yes, the older the better

I personally don't use diamonds to raise a slurry anymore. I didn't like the way they were roughing up the surface of my stone. It seems to me that as you sharpen steel on a stone it gets smoother and smoother. This makes it work slower and give a finer polish. If you add a rougher mix to the slurry it will roughen up the stone, speeding it up, and leaving a rougher finish to the blade. This is when you need to remove a lot of metal. Then you clean the stone really good and rub it down really well with a very hard and smooth tomonagura and work that fine slurry with the blade, smoothing the stone back out again and making it suitable for the final polish.

I'm not sure how much work the slurry actually does directly to the blade. I think it might serve to dull it slightly and help prevent the formation of a wire edge. It seems like the slurry is more about roughing or smoothing the surface of the stone, which then acts on the blade. If that makes any sense. Everything I do is by feel, I have never really seen whats going on.

You know how smooth the stone is by the feel you get when you run the blade across it. Looking at how it reflects light is deceptive, the same way some synthetic stone may give a mirror finish but not be as good as the dull finish by a fine jnat.

I can tell when I'm getting a good polish because i can't feel anything happening, the blade is sliding without any noticible friction. It's hard to get this condition with poor quality stones. Hopefully my new one will be easier to get in this state.

I'm sorry if my post is hard to read. I'm not that good of a writer.

Originally Posted by infamous

You know how smooth the stone is by the feel you get when you run the blade across it. Looking at how it reflects light is deceptive, the same way some synthetic stone may give a mirror finish but not be as good as the dull finish by a fine jnat.

Actually the finest, hardest Jnats will give you closer to a mirror finish if used with water alone.
The kasumi finish comes from unevenly sized particles in the stone &/or slurry creating scratches of slightly unequal depth so light reflects differently off the surface.
The more even the grit, the less haze, again, I stipulate with water only. Using a slurry on the same stone will give you the haze due to different sized particles.

Can wel call Shouboudani, Shoubou? Or Scooby Doo?Shobo?

Beautiful stone Zib. Congratz.

Have you done what DrNaka suggested, getting a mirror surface
on your stone?

Why are asagi's so special? Is is because they are from deep strata
and therefore very hard and fine? Are there other reasons? I also
read they can be scratchy? How is this effect mitigated?

Which mine produces the best asagi stones? I would guess Nakayama
since stones from this mine is ar so popular and expensive. Which mine
also has beautiful asagi stones, but much less expensive? I might buy
one in the future. Damn this HAD!!!

Sharpman

Originally Posted by SharpMan

Why are asagi's so special? Is is because they are from deep strata
and therefore very hard and fine? Are there other reasons? I also
read they can be scratchy? How is this effect mitigated?

Which mine produces the best asagi stones? I would guess Nakayama
since stones from this mine is ar so popular and expensive. Which mine
also has beautiful asagi stones, but much less expensive? I might buy
one in the future. Damn this HAD!!!

Sharpman

They're not really that special. There are good ones & bad ones but the ones that aren't scratchy are the special ones. Asagi come from the Namito layer & odds are most Namito are better razor stones. Don't limit your search to one type, Even Suita could do at a pinch. Most would certainly improve an 8k finish. I recently acquired a Tomae (thanx Muscles) which is a shallower layer but works great for finishing razors. Nakayama, Oozuku, Shoubudani are all known for good Asagi but you need to use a trusted seller & if possible test the stone first. And it helps a lot if you know what you want. Again the seller should be able to help guide you.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

They're not really that special. There are good ones & bad ones but the ones that aren't scratchy are the special ones. Asagi come from the Namito layer & odds are most Namito are better razor stones. Don't limit your search to one type, Even Suita could do at a pinch. Most would certainly improve an 8k finish. I recently acquired a Tomae (thanx Muscles) which is a shallower layer but works great for finishing razors. Nakayama, Oozuku, Shoubudani are all known for good Asagi but you need to use a trusted seller & if possible test the stone first. And it helps a lot if you know what you want. Again the seller should be able to help guide you.

Thank you.

In the future I will be looking for a very hard, very fine, uniform,
no su/toxic lines. Size 8 by 2.5 or 3. An inch thick.

Now such a stone from the Nakayama mine would probably cost at
least 500 dollars or more That is why I am interested in the other mines. I mean I don't care from which mine it comes as long as it is working
very good.`

Sharpman