Thread: Naniwa 12k vs Sigma 13k

Originally Posted by Bruno

If, otoh, you like playing with high grit stones for the fun of it, then it makes sense to try everything under the sun.

I'm one of those persons

Originally Posted by Ozgun

I think I have. I have some vintage fram and dorko razors which have very hard and durable steels. Lil bit on the aggressive side.

Ozgun, I'm confused again. I usually find hard steels delightfully smooth. What do you find aggressive in yours ?

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Ozgun, I'm confused again. I usually find hard steels delightfully smooth. What do you find aggressive in yours ?

Well, I dont have tons of razors to compare. But in my limited collection i find my softer steel razors to be more gliding and buttery, hard steels are more aggressive and harsh. For example I had an h. h. stoll which had a quite soft steel, wouldn't hold its edge much but the shaves were amazingly comfortable, easy and fast. I could shave fastly with that like shaving with an cartridge razor. Still I gifted it to my friend because of its weaker edge holding capabilities, it was a nice razor with fancy steel scales. But the ones like FRAM (badass) an so has old world hard carbon steels durable like tool steels but not much forgiving and harsher.

Don't misunderstand me, I mostly get very close and irritation free shaves with them too. But not as buttery as some softer steeled ones. I have a french Duvert frameback, which has very aggressive design with a big scary looking edge. Its still is moderate in hardness. Gets very sharp like it could split the atoms. Despite that blade shape it shaves very smoothly with some attention. Fram or dorko wouldn't forgive pressure or angle mistakes much.

With my henckels its still feels a lil bit harsh. Maybe harsh not the right word for this one. Crisp I should say. Maybe too crisp. Yet I like the feel that crsip edge. But my first choice is smooth steels and smooth edges as I shave everyday. But I cannot give up on high sharpness while asking for smooth edges, because I have hard and dense beard aka adamantium.

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Fram or dorko wouldn't forgive pressure or angle mistakes much.

You should look at these & then your smoothest razors under a microscope. Of course the edges should look different.
Possibly the harder razors need more work & the softer razors arrive at a good edge sooner. However, the hardest razor I ever honed was comfortable even when not fully shave ready. Of course pulled against the grain until I got it shave ready but not harsh or irritation inducing..
My beard is only like bamboo

Originally Posted by Bruno

....snip....

If you already have one of the stones you mention, there is no need to buy anything else.

Originally Posted by Ozgun

I'm one of those persons

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Well, I dont have tons of razors to compare. But in my limited collection i find my softer steel razors to be more gliding and buttery, hard steels are more aggressive and harsh. For example I had
....snip....

Do not overlook pastes on an old strop.

A light dusting of CeOx (the good stuff) on leather
and a light spray of 0.5 or 0.25 diamond on the canvas
side takes a well honed edge one notch down the
smooth line. Pasted strops after honing are often
a good thing. Most still recommend clean leather
and canvas there after but right after honing and for
perhaps a couple of shaves sub micron paste works.

For the price of these high end hones you can
pick up some strops to tinker with. The
Illinois 827 has a split (wormy side) that accepts
a dusting or spray of abrasive nicely. If the nap
is a little long worry it with a well used DMT so
it is more suede like. The canvas side starts out
a bit plastic like but again the DMT can worry it
and free the fibers and lower the woven bumps.

SRD Strops have replacement leather and fabric
for a price that makes tinkering with pastes finer
than these great 12K+ hones possible. And they
are just darn fine strops.

Their Paddle system is deluxe and may have been
purpose designed for this type of tinkering....

Hunt for Cubic Boron Nitride (cBN) sprays... in the
sub 0.5 micron range. i.e. From one vendor...

0.75 micron - 24,000 grit
0.50 micron - 30,000 grit
0.25 micron - 60,000 grit
0.125 micron - 120,000 grit
0.10 micron - 160,000 grit

They do worry steel aggressively and in some cases may be
more abrasive on steel than diamond.

I have been tinkering with 0.5 micron cBN
on my Spyderco ultra fine hone as a false
slurry and find that a small bit works well.

SUMMARY:
CeOx is a good thing if you have the good stuff,
try it.

Originally Posted by Ozgun

Here's what, I want an edge as smooth and buttery as a coticule edge but, as sharp as a 60's gillette stainless steel de blade(if you dont know similar to feather sharpness). Just cromox after synthetics won't work. What do I need exactly? Very sharp but also very smooth and gliding? :/

I think you only need to hone, A LOT. The smoothest and sharpest edges won't come to you without effort. Hone a few hundred razors, or get a razor that you will hone into oblivion, and you will find what you are searching for. The best Jnat on the world won't get you your results if you don't put a lot of work into it.

Hi, I apologise for interrupting this thread with a newbie question, but it seems an appropriate place for it.

I'm about to pull the trigger on my first hone(s) and was originally considering getting the 5K, 8K and 12K Naniwa super stones. Then I came across a set of Sigma Power Ceramics on tools from Japan. The set consists of 1K, 6K and 13K (as well as a diamond plate for lapping) at a very reasonable price. The comments by the vendor suggest that there would be no issue going from the 1-6-13 without needing anything in between, which makes the proposition even more attractive as it sounds like a complete solution from restoration to finishing.

Is anyone able to confirm that you can indeed just progress through these 3 stones from bevel setting to finishing? And does this sound like a good option for my first hones?

Actually, I lied about originally considering the Naniwas. I originally considered a shoubudani asagi, but after reading a lot of posts on this forum I have seen reason and decided to start with the synthetics. So thanks everyone for the advice you didn't know you'd given. And saving me the money that my wife doesn't know I'm spending.

Alex.

That set (1,6,13) would be fine for razors.

Really, either set will get you to about the same place with razors, but I think the 13k is a very nice synthetic finisher. Both the superstones and the SP finishers have a nice feel.

I don't have experience with the Sigma's but I do use a King combination stone which is 1000/6000 & a naniwa 12K. I find that if I start off using a slurry on the when I move up to the next grit level helps, otherwise you may find the jump from 1000-6000-13000 a bit much.

Originally Posted by Ragamuffin

Hi, I apologise for interrupting this thread with a newbie question, but it seems an appropriate place for it.

I'm about to pull the trigger on my first hone(s) and was originally considering getting the 5K, 8K and 12K Naniwa super stones. Then I came across a set of Sigma Power Ceramics on tools from Japan. The set consists of 1K, 6K and 13K (as well as a diamond plate for lapping) at a very reasonable price. The comments by the vendor suggest that there would be no issue going from the 1-6-13 without needing anything in between, which makes the proposition even more attractive as it sounds like a complete solution from restoration to finishing.

Is anyone able to confirm that you can indeed just progress through these 3 stones from bevel setting to finishing? And does this sound like a good option for my first hones?

Actually, I lied about originally considering the Naniwas. I originally considered a shoubudani asagi, but after reading a lot of posts on this forum I have seen reason and decided to start with the synthetics. So thanks everyone for the advice you didn't know you'd given. And saving me the money that my wife doesn't know I'm spending.

Alex.

Don't you think that the 1k-6k gap is too big? The sigma stones are really fast, but they abrade quickly. A stone between them will actually save you money is my opinion.