Thread: Is this microchipping...

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Looks like more than .5cm, about a half inch on the heel and at the toe, that are not fully set, yes they are meeting, but look at the stria at the edge.

Joint the edge and reset the bevel, you may have to add pressure on the heel to compensate for the spine that was ground at the heel from ridding the shoulder.

You want to hone the whole edge, so you can use the whole edge. More importantly the edge is not fully set and may fail at the higher grits.

This is exactly where most new honers have a problem in a rush to set the bevel and move on without a fully set bevel, you will pay for it later spending more time setting the bevel on a high grit stone. Do it right the first time, it’s not a race.

Either more time on the hone or two layers of tape to fully set the bevel.

Here are detailed shots on each end of the edge, on each side (hopefully with a little better lighting - tough with the LEDs built into the microscope):



I don't really see any issue at the toe of the blade on either side, at least not near the edge. On the heel, on the right side (only), there is about 7mm, from the beginning of the straight part towards the center of the blade, whee I see a problem (3rd picture). I'll hone more and see if I can work that out better.

BTW, I have no intention of rushing this. I have three other blades to use in the meantime, so I'm trying to do this one well. Hence the postings here looking for suggestions (knowing I'll get 4 suggestions from every 3 people

Originally Posted by BeJay

You can see that most of the edge looks good but the heel is not set. This is a perfect opportunity to practice some testing. Magnification is great but the TNT and TPT will give you a better idea of what's going on. You say you've done 80 strokes. It looks like your bevel is coming in just fine but it needs more work. Any extra pressure on the heel should be pretty light. You may just have to remove some steel from the entire length of the blade to get the heel to come in evenly. This doesn't look like a particularly tough or tricky blade, it just needs a little more work. Do a TNT and you'll see the difference between the heel and the rest of the blade. Keep going until the heel feels like the rest of the blade.

Well, I haven't ever done a TNT, so I'm afraid I can't judge with that test. With the TPT (going perpendicular to the edge, at an angle - hopefully that is right - I've read multiple interpretations on this test), there seems to be a slight less sharpness at the heel, but it is barely perceptible (to me). In previous honing of another blade, I could really tell that it wasn't sharp, but with this blade it is very similar along the whole length of the blade.

I'll do more strokes tonight, with some pressure on that heel to see if I can work this out. I'll keep in mind your point that I may need to remove steel from the whole edge - seems like a good point to me.

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions! I know there's some varying suggestions, and I'll try to incorporate several of them and see what works for me and this razor.

I'll give another go tonight and post some shots.

THANKS!!!!

Originally Posted by pcm

Well, I haven't ever done a TNT, so I'm afraid I can't judge with that test. With the TPT (going perpendicular to the edge, at an angle - hopefully that is right - I've read multiple interpretations on this test), there seems to be a slight less sharpness at the heel, but it is barely perceptible (to me). In previous honing of another blade, I could really tell that it wasn't sharp, but with this blade it is very similar along the whole length of the blade.

me.

This is the perfect opportunity to experiment and learn the TNT. Even if it doesn't definitively tell you if your done, this is a good chance to get a feel for it. It's probably safe to say that most of the bevel is set and that the heel is not set. Read up on the TNT and try it. You'll see that most of the blade will have a little drag and feel silky smooth(bevel set). The heel will feel rough without that subtle drag(bevel not set). Give it a try, and keep doing it every 40 strokes or so until it all feels the same(bevel set). Then give it 10-15 more light strokes and move on to your next stone. A stubborn bevel can take hundreds of strokes. That's why a lot of guys do circles or back and fourth strokes to speed things up.

Because you have an uneven spine with a lot of wear and matching bevel, a heel forward rolling X stroke will hone both heel and spine. With the TNT you are looking for rough spots on the edge.

It looks like you are not reaching all the way to the edge on both. The 1st photo shows an uneven stria pattern on the toe, heel photos do as well, but not as much.

A sharpie will do much the same thing as the TNT, with the added benefit of inking the edge and a couple thousands of each side of the bevel. Take the sharpie and lightly drag the sharpie from heel to toe with just the weight of the pen on the edge. You will feel any unevenness on the edge, these are the spots you want to concentrate on.

Now do one lap and look at the edge. Do not wipe the bevel. Any area that ink is not removed at the edge, are where you want to focus on.

Yes, we all have our preferences and “test” that work for us, you have to find what works for you. The bottom line is the more time you spend ensuring the bevel is completely set, the easier the polishing will be. So don’t move up in grit, until you are absolutely sure the bevels are meeting completely, whatever test you use.

Jointing the edge and resetting the edge to gets you to good steel with a straight edge, (the ultimate goal), but you can do the same thing by just honing. For me that is hit and miss, and I would rather have a straight edge first with good steel, then hone to that edge.

On edges that are already flat, it is easier to set the edge on a 4k and avoid deep stria of the 1k, you can always drop down to a more aggressive stone if needed. Once the bevels are flat and reasonably in line at the proper angle, getting them to meet does not take too many laps.

You are very close. Because of the spine wear, I would use 2 layers of tape to increase the angle and hone to the edge and easily have set the bevel on the 4k.

Originally Posted by BeJay

This is the perfect opportunity to experiment and learn the TNT. Even if it doesn't definitively tell you if your done, this is a good chance to get a feel for it. It's probably safe to say that most of the bevel is set and that the heel is not set. Read up on the TNT and try it. You'll see that most of the blade will have a little drag and feel silky smooth(bevel set). The heel will feel rough without that subtle drag(bevel not set). Give it a try, and keep doing it every 40 strokes or so until it all feels the same(bevel set). Then give it 10-15 more light strokes and move on to your next stone. A stubborn bevel can take hundreds of strokes. That's why a lot of guys do circles or back and fourth strokes to speed things up.

I didn't see this until I had done quite a bit more. I tried the TNT and didn't really perceive a difference along the edge. It may have been because I've worked on it more.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Because you have an uneven spine with a lot of wear and matching bevel, a heel forward rolling X stroke will hone both heel and spine. With the TNT you are looking for rough spots on the edge.

It looks like you are not reaching all the way to the edge on both. The 1st photo shows an uneven stria pattern on the toe, heel photos do as well, but not as much.

A sharpie will do much the same thing as the TNT, with the added benefit of inking the edge and a couple thousands of each side of the bevel. Take the sharpie and lightly drag the sharpie from heel to toe with just the weight of the pen on the edge. You will feel any unevenness on the edge, these are the spots you want to concentrate on.

Now do one lap and look at the edge. Do not wipe the bevel. Any area that ink is not removed at the edge, are where you want to focus on.

Yes, we all have our preferences and “test” that work for us, you have to find what works for you. The bottom line is the more time you spend ensuring the bevel is completely set, the easier the polishing will be. So don’t move up in grit, until you are absolutely sure the bevels are meeting completely, whatever test you use.

Jointing the edge and resetting the edge to gets you to good steel with a straight edge, (the ultimate goal), but you can do the same thing by just honing. For me that is hit and miss, and I would rather have a straight edge first with good steel, then hone to that edge.

On edges that are already flat, it is easier to set the edge on a 4k and avoid deep stria of the 1k, you can always drop down to a more aggressive stone if needed. Once the bevels are flat and reasonably in line at the proper angle, getting them to meet does not take too many laps.

You are very close. Because of the spine wear, I would use 2 layers of tape to increase the angle and hone to the edge and easily have set the bevel on the 4k.

I inked both sides and did one pass and it removed all the ink AFAICT (this is after honing with pressure on the edge at the heel, and a bit on the toe). Thanks for the explanation on why you joint the edge.

I still had one layer of tape on (I read this after I had honed some tonight, ). Here's what the edge looks like at toe, middle, and heel on both sides and higher magnification (hard to keep in focus) at heel and toe:


It really looks good to me. Will be curious as to what people think...

Looks better, the heel may end up with a sharp corner, which should have been reshaped, now you may end up going back and resetting the heel once shaped.

Move up and see what happens.

Here are shots (at high magnification) of the edge at three points:



BTW: the two spots at the heel (last shot) were skin flakes I think - I wiped it and they are gone.

Looks good, polish on the 4k and remove all the 1k stria, the edge will start to straighten out. Some circles 20 or so will jump start the stria removal because of cross grain honing, then smooth out and lay down a uniform 4k pattern with X strokes.

Keep an eye on the toe and heel.