Thread: Is this microchipping...

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Looks good, polish on the 4k and remove all the 1k stria, the edge will start to straighten out. Some circles 20 or so will jump start the stria removal because of cross grain honing, then smooth out and lay down a uniform 4k pattern with X strokes.

Keep an eye on the toe and heel.

Thanks for the suggestions! I just received stone holders today (yay!) and a Naniwa SS 2000 grit (as a late XMAS gift). I'll give it a try today. Will keep a close eye on the toe/heel as you mentioned.

Thanks!

OK, partially into honing with the new SS 2K I got today. I did heel forward X strokes with pressure and checked on the microscope. It was a bit hard to tell what was 1K stria, so I did a bunch of strokes with the blade perpendicular to the stone, so there was a different pattern. Here are high magnification shots (with the bevel about 1mm, except on the left side heel where it widens to 2.75mm):



In the middle, the stria are all going the same way, and look good. However, on the toe, especially on the right side, the angle stria from the 1K are still there (even with me applying pressure on the toe's edge). On the heel, only on the right side, are there diagonal stria showing, and it is right at the corner (maybe 1mm).

Suggestions on approach to take here?

Should I drop back down to 1K and try to hone more metal off to get to the edge better at toe and heel?
Should I go up to two layers of tape, to increase the angle?
If I drop down, should I try to round that corner on the heel (which might reduce the issue some, as there will be less metal there)?

How do the 2K stria look? I never got to doing light pressure strokes, as I want to address these problem spots, if needed.

Thanks for the advice folks!

Do reshape the heel, that will bring the heel/edge corner forward, towards the toe and away from the shoulder. Make sure you are not riding on the shoulder keeping the heel off the stone. Some sharpie ink on the shoulder will tell you if you are riding on it.

Ink the heel bevel, and take some straight strokes with the edge 90 degrees to the edge of the stone with your index finger add some pressure to the heel, not a lot just a bit more than the weight of your finger. Check the ink to see if the heel is hitting the stone.

I like using colored ink, you can easily see if the ink is not removed, black ink often looks like a shadow, Red, Green or Blue can easily and quickly be seen with the naked eye.

A little bit of extra pressure on the heel should get it honed to the edge, because the rest of the bevel is flat the edge should come together quickly on the 2k. Nice stria on the 2k, BTW.

Again...

There is no need to remove part of the heel. The shoulder on the tang has no bearing on the honing of this particular blade. There is no shoulder or stabilizer interfering with the contact between the blade and the hone. Removing the end of the blade is too extreme of a solution to a honing error. If it were a viable solution, then why not remove part of the point as well?

The honing stroke needs to be changed, not the length of the edge.

Now that you have perpendicular striations, try going back to a 45 degree honing angle and using a rolling X stroke. You can make contact with both ends with the right stroke.

Here is what a Union Spike heel should look like. Notice how round the corner is and how far forward the top of the bevel is. In the second photo, of your Spike, note the wear marks on the shoulder, (Top arrow), and how far back into the corner the top of the bevel is, (Bottom arrow).

The main reason for reshaping the heel is to avoid a heel hook that will eventually form from excessively honing the heel back into the corner. If you do not reshape it, and continue honing, it will form a sharp corner as you now have and even a hook.

Here is an old thread where Neil Miller and Glen talk about correcting Heel Hooks. Glen references another thread in post 5, with before and after photos of a heel that he reshaped, It looks similar to yours.

It is a common problem and a very simple fix.

I can see how riding the shoulder up on the stone would change the angle and make it impossible to get a good bevel set at the heel. It seems that reshaping the heel would treat the symptom while ignoring the cause though. I think it should be honed heel forward without hitting the shoulder on the hone.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Do reshape the heel, that will bring the heel/edge corner forward, towards the toe and away from the shoulder. Make sure you are not riding on the shoulder keeping the heel off the stone. Some sharpie ink on the shoulder will tell you if you are riding on it.

Ink the heel bevel, and take some straight strokes with the edge 90 degrees to the edge of the stone with your index finger add some pressure to the heel, not a lot just a bit more than the weight of your finger. Check the ink to see if the heel is hitting the stone.

I like using colored ink, you can easily see if the ink is not removed, black ink often looks like a shadow, Red, Green or Blue can easily and quickly be seen with the naked eye.

A little bit of extra pressure on the heel should get it honed to the edge, because the rest of the bevel is flat the edge should come together quickly on the 2k. Nice stria on the 2k, BTW.

I've been really careful to use a heel forward stroke, as I did have times when it would contact the stabilizer. After doing a 45 stroke, I don't notice it contacting.

I'll ink it tonight (try to find a colored sharpie), and see how the coverage is. I don't think I'm getting good contact on the heel, but we'll see.

If that is the case, would this be a time to do a rolling X stroke?
I think in a video from Glen, it was just applying pressure on the heel's edge and then transferring that to the center and then toe, as I go along the stroke (keeping the spine on the stone)? Like a weight transfer of sorts?

If I grind down the heel, should I drop to 1K to get the edge back?

Originally Posted by Utopian

Again...

There is no need to remove part of the heel. The shoulder on the tang has no bearing on the honing of this particular blade. There is no shoulder or stabilizer interfering with the contact between the blade and the hone. Removing the end of the blade is too extreme of a solution to a honing error. If it were a viable solution, then why not remove part of the point as well?

The honing stroke needs to be changed, not the length of the edge.

Now that you have perpendicular striations, try going back to a 45 degree honing angle and using a rolling X stroke. You can make contact with both ends with the right stroke.

With a leading heel, I don't seem to see it contacting any more, but in the past honing attempts, I didn't use that and there were times when it would contact.

It does seem like I need to learn how to do the rolling X stroke on this blade, given it is not quite contacting.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Here is what a Union Spike heel should look like. Notice how round the corner is and how far forward the top of the bevel is. In the second photo, of your Spike, note the wear marks on the shoulder, (Top arrow), and how far back into the corner the top of the bevel is, (Bottom arrow).

The main reason for reshaping the heel is to avoid a heel hook that will eventually form from excessively honing the heel back into the corner. If you do not reshape it, and continue honing, it will form a sharp corner as you now have and even a hook.

Here is an old thread where Neil Miller and Glen talk about correcting Heel Hooks. Glen references another thread in post 5, with before and after photos of a heel that he reshaped, It looks similar to yours.

It is a common problem and a very simple fix.

Great shots. It makes sense, from the photo, that, if I don't do a heel forward stroke, it'll contact. Mine shows 1mm from top of bevel to stabilizer and 2.5mm from bottom of edge to stabilizer. The other thing I notice in that shot is that the height of your razor is MUCH higher than mine (the two have very similar width where the writing is, but the blade is quite a bit wider on yours. I can clearly see that my blade is 1.45cm high at toe and 1.35cm at heel (1mm narrower).

It does seem that rounding may make it easier to hone, getting all the way to the heel. I'll think on this a bit more and do the inking tests.

Originally Posted by BeJay

I can see how riding the shoulder up on the stone would change the angle and make it impossible to get a good bevel set at the heel. It seems that reshaping the heel would treat the symptom while ignoring the cause though. I think it should be honed heel forward without hitting the shoulder on the hone.

This whole honing session, I've been heel forward, but I don't think I'm getting good contact at the heel. I may need to learn the rolling X stroke in addition to a heel forward - at least that is my thinking from what I'm reading here.