Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

**Wildtim** · 08-27-2007, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bruno

I think it is perfectly possible to combine religion with science. At least, I know I see no conflict despite having a masters degree in electronics.

My hobby in Uni was theoretical physics (Yes I was a nerd, no I did not have a girlfriend). It never ceased to amaze me that a couple of very very simple laws that fit on the back of a napkin could be used to work out some amazingly complex problems and still come up with the correct answers despite the fact that they went against common sense.

A Phd in quantum physics I once knew told me that quantum theory is the most verified theory in existence because it gives some pretty weird answers that defied common sense. So people created experiments they thought would fail, yet each of them succeeded.

Anyway, I feel that there has to be a higher purpose or design to have made this mathematical perfection possible.
If I had to put my feelings to writing in a very crude way, I'd say that God set up the ground rules and let the universe figure itself out from that moment onwards, following those rules.

This is definitely the first thread where I have found myself in such total agreement with Bruno. In fact it might just have taken a miracle.

Bruno did we just prove the existence of God?

**denmason** · 08-28-2007, 12:36 AM

I find this all very amusing, but I have to wonder about a few things... like:
Does there need to be a reason for this place we call Earth?
Doesn't god have better things to do than to watch over us?
Why can't I find anything about Jesus in history books? (I've looked very hard and for a very long time.)

To me, I see religion as a ways and means to control people. And it has been working very well for a very long time. I have always enjoyed George Carlin's views: http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

Or... check out the beginning of this short little video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81422995115331

**JMS** · 08-28-2007, 12:37 AM

So far so good! I'll post my own views after I take care of my animals, eat dinner, and put my children to bed!

**Wildtim** · 08-28-2007, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by denmason

I find this all very amusing, but I have to wonder about a few things... like:
Does there need to be a reason for this place we call Earth?

Not necessarily but explain how it exists if there is no reason for it, be specific.

Originally Posted by denmason

Doesn't god have better things to do than to watch over us?

No. you don't have kids do you, pets? Besides we are funny in so many ways, we might have been created just for our entertainment value alone (for proof spend an hour in a mall and just people watch.)

Originally Posted by denmason

Why can't I find anything about Jesus in history books? (I've looked very hard and for a very long time.)

Look harder, there is proof for a large number of the facts in the bible, from dates of rule to astronomical events to descriptions of buildings interiors that could not have been widely known. Most of the rulers named during the time of Christ are verifiable, as is the fact that at that time Christianity originated and begun to make an impact upon the Roman empire radiating out from Jerusalem. No there isn't a specific record that on such a day the Son of God was hung on a cross, and then seen walking around by the next week.

Originally Posted by denmason

To me, I see religion as a ways and means to control people. And it has been working very well for a very long time. I have always enjoyed George Carlin's views: http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm

Or... check out the beginning of this short little video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81422995115331

**thebigspendur** · 08-28-2007, 02:55 AM

In my view everything we are, all our thoughts our very beings are constrained by this tiny insignificant planet we live on. We are controlled by its daily cycles and these cycles control us. That's why we can't conceive of the Universe as infinite. Afterall everything has an end doesn't it? If you could fly in a space ship a zillion times the speed of light you would come to an end and there would be a wall and whats on the other side eh? We just have problems with the idea of infinity. Everything we know has a beginning and an end, our lives, the day, the week, the year,our travels. Nothing is infinite. The Universe got along very nicely before man existed and will continue to get along very nicely once our world is a cinder orbiting the sun and we don't exist anymore.

We haven't a clue as to the true nature of the Universe and are struggling to find answers. We aren't much different than the people who looked out over the ocean in the 1400s and were sure the world was flat. When man doesn't understand he invents something to give him all the answers. Something simple he can make a part of his life. The more you learn about something the more you realize how much more there is to learn. The smartest man in the world is the most ignorant man because he knows he has all the answers.

I think this is just the way it is. I make no reference to any religion and you can interpret what I've said the way you wish. It may seem kind of fatalistic but hey the Universe is a very violent place and I believe everything just mirrors that fact.

**custommartini** · 08-28-2007, 03:59 AM

Wow Mark, another great topic that we have all skirted away from til now.
I gotta run, but I'll post more later...

**JMS** · 08-28-2007, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by custommartini

Wow Mark, another great topic that we have all skirted away from til now.
I gotta run, but I'll post more later...

Are you skirting?

**JMS** · 08-28-2007, 06:07 AM

So here goes! As I sit in front of my computer I have opened up a Belgium ale of beautiful color and exquisite flavor! Little one celled creatures called yeast help to make this product what it is, not to mention the skillful hands of the Brewmaster who knows when to pitch the yeast, when to bottle, he understands the ingredients intimately so as to make a perfect product every time! what gives this man his understanding? Where does he derive the ability to make such an extraordinary product? What is the power that drives the yeast forward to do what comes naturally to it? What is behind my ability to enjoy such a product? I believe the power which allows us our skills and enjoyments and our understanding is the same power that set the foundation for all things from the beginning of time!
It seems that no matter what I look upon, whether it be mans artifice or the construction of a flower I see a grand intelligence that can not be denied! All things follow a pattern, and if you travel backwards to where this pattern begins, you always come to the same question which is "What is the power that set all things in motion?"
Our brain controls our body but what controls our brain?, or maybe put better, what gave us the power of self control? I believe God did! He who is the foundation of all! the Supreme intelligence or Higher Power if you prefer! That my friends is how I see it!

**LX_Emergency** · 08-28-2007, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by denmason

I find this all very amusing, but I have to wonder about a few things... like:
Does there need to be a reason for this place we call Earth? There doesn't have to be but that doesn't mean that there isn't. (I believe there is)
Doesn't god have better things to do than to watch over us? If we are His children (which HE claimed if you believe in scripture) then no.....what parent has better things to do than watch over His children?
Why can't I find anything about Jesus in history books? (I've looked very hard and for a very long time.) Look for the roman/jewish historian Josephus. Other than that there's not much but that makes sense since Jesus was (at the time) not a very powerfull person or someone of political influence. I'm pretty sure no historian has been busy with my neighbour either and maybe he will show great influence in time.

To me, I see religion as a ways and means to control people. And it has been working very well for a very long time. I have always enjoyed George Carlin's views: http://www.rense.com/general69/obj.htm I haven't had the time to read the link but I'm sorry you feel that way. Religion is something that gives joy, hope and strength to many a person.

Or... check out the beginning of this short little video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81422995115331

**xman** · 08-28-2007, 06:21 AM

In a word?
NO
If we restrict the participants to those who share a general viewpoint then there can be a discussion within those views. Outsiders will not be understood. If the discussion is about "God is love" vs. "God is the creator", then you'll all have a fun time. The further out somebody's view is the greater the chance that there will be casualties. Want proof?

There is no god, because there is no evidence. That's a fact. It is a different thing from a belief. Belief in god or gods is a fiction absent of factual evidence. It might be one which comforts you or one which has been argued to your satisfaction, but that doesn't change the nature of reality.

Care to discuss that? I don't. People don't listen when it comes to their god. I'd like nothing more than to free the mind, but the religious mind wants nothing more than to save my soul. Those are incompatible agendas.

Your last thread wasn't "Let's Talk Politics". I think that would have been too challenging as well. Bring this discussion down to its elemental structure as you did the last thread and there might be some hope.

With deep apologies for my brutal honesty, but the truth will set you free (that's my belief).

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