Thread: Is it possible for us as men to have a discussion on God

Originally Posted by xman

Questionaire

I like it!

Originally Posted by JMS

X, are you trying to start trouble on this thread?
Didn't you post in this thread that you would rather not take part in this conversation?

There's nothing to not discuss.

X

Originally Posted by xman

There's nothing not to discuss.

X

I appreciate that you have your own ideas about thing X, but since you're so willing to allow that we who believe in a Supreme being are wrong can you at least allow for the possibility that you are wrong?

Originally Posted by JMS

I appreciate that you have your own ideas about thing X, but since you're so willing to allow that we who believe in a Supreme being are wrong can you at least allow for the possibility that you are wrong?

Since I'm not talking about opinions, no. I'm relating evidence. It's not my evidence so I cannot claim its 'rightness', only report the truth. You may accept or deny it as you will, I'm not certain I can change that. I can hope I'm wrong though.

X

Originally Posted by xman

Since I'm not talking about opinions, no. I'm relating evidence. It's not my evidence so I cannot claim its 'rightness', only report the truth. You may accept or deny it as you will, I'm not certain I can change that. I can hope I'm wrong though.

X

Funny thing about truth though, we only see a small portion of the total! My mother always told me that truth is like a multi-faceted diamond and men argue over this truth because they only see the facet that they are looking at instead of looking at the whole! I would add to this that some truths are far too enormous for us to see the whole! Imagine two ants discussing the reality of Man!

Good night my good man,
Mark

Originally Posted by JMS

Funny thing about truth though, we only see a small portion of the total! My mother always told me that truth is like a multi-faceted diamond and men argue over this truth because they only see the facet that they are looking at instead of looking at the whole! I would add to this that some truths are far too enormous for us to see the whole! Imagine two ants discussing the reality of Man!

Good night my good man,
Mark

Pleasant dreams, (thus proving himself wrong so far) ...

X

Originally Posted by xman

Pleasant dreams, (thus proving himself wrong so far) ...

X

You can't help yourself, can you?

Originally Posted by JMS

You can't help yourself, can you?

Can't help discussing? Sure I can. Can't help being civil so far? You got me there.

X

All-

I think one of the problems religion and science have had from the beginning where each became a defined, unique entity, is that people have tried to combine them or use the rules of one on the other (I followed the cake recipe to the letter...why won't the car start?). Fact is fact and faith is faith. You cannot prove faith by scientific theorems any more than the science community would accept a new law of physics as being proven because your thesis simply says "I believe it to be."

Problems occur when people are not happy with their religion and themselves. They feel the need to force it on others. There is a huge religious fundamentalist moment in the US, but I wonder how many of these people are actually reading and studying scripture, versus parroting what they have been told. A friend of mine calls the mega-churches "Jesus clubs" as most of the attendees seem more adept at judging others and showing why they are superior, than actually following the words of Christ. Christians do not have a monopoly on fanaticism. I have lived in Europe and Asia and have seen it there as well. Throughout history, more people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason. This does not mean that religion is bad; it means humans are not perfect and that any idea can be corrupted.

Among many different careers, the most predominant was my training as a linguist. I have seen many fundamentalist Christians get very upset when I would correct their quoting of scripture or explain the Greek or Aramaic roots of the text. To me, this is just being a good student of the topic at hand. I was encouraged when I was young to study all the world's religions and philosophies....even atheism. The more I studied, the more I saw the common threads running through all the religions.

For people of faith - test yourself. Argue against your religion, your beliefs and see how well you understand versus simply repeating what you have been told. For those who do not espouse religion - do the same exercise. Argue the existence of a Supreme Being as evidenced by the happenings in your life.

Perhaps it was living all over the place or being exposed to other cultures or my studies of history and the misery brought on by zealotry, but my view can best be summed up by two quotes:

Christ:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."



Voltaire (attributed): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


In ancient China, before history was written, there was a great man - respected and venerated for his honesty, charity, justice and compassion. He has 12 sons - each a worthy man in his own right and each capable of succeeding his father. The father was also known to have a great ring of gold which was believed to reveal the absolute Truth at the moment of death. Wearing the ring carried great responsibility.



On his deathbed, the great man was surrounded by family and friends - so many that the walls of the house had to be removed, leaving only the posts and beams. Next to his bed knelt his 12 sons. He instructed each son to come to him alone, the first at noon, the second at 1, and so on.


The next day, each son commented to the other that he was honored that their father had entrusted him with the Ring of Truth. When each son discovered that he had the exact same ring as the others, they were confused. They went to their father and asked what this meant.


The father explained that he could not divide the ring among his beloved sons, so each one has the same ring. The sons were more confused. The father continued: "You can never know the absolute Truth until you die. I could not have one holding the ring and the others with nothing. Now, none of you have the ring, and all of you have the ring, and no one will know until they pass into the hereafter, but then only you will know whether you had the true ring or not. Regardless, you are all my children and you are all brothers, regardless of the ring you carry." And with that, the great man passed away, never telling his sons which one had the true ring. Each would have to find out for himself at the moment of his passing.


Greg

Nope, these are my views. Where did you get your views from, I think that they are rubbish also. So, to each his own. Don't be so defensive. I don't think the video is ripping anything, just presenting facts and proofs, not ripping. I'm sorry you feel this way.

Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

Could you remove the video link in your post? I've heard that argument before and it's rubbish. Also it's a video specifically made to rip on Christians and I DON'T think that's in the spirit of the thread. That's not forwarding your own views...that's pulling someone else's down.