Thread: Local news on Covid 19

Please stop with false equivalencies

A Gun Company cannot be sued for 3rd party usage, they most CERTAINLY can be sued for negligence, ie: a faulty safety or design defect..


Edit: What I find completely egregious is that some of you are defending the very idea that if there are long term side effects that Big Pharma should not be held responsible..
I think the Trump Admin was CRAZY for allowing the supposed indemnity

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Edit: What I find completely egregious is that some of you are defending the very idea that if there are long term side effects that Big Pharma should not be held responsible..
I think the Trump Admin was CRAZY for allowing the supposed indemnity

I have not seen anyone defending the very idea that Big Pharma should not be held responsible for adverse long term side effects if they were negligent. Personally, I think they should but it will be very difficult or in some cases impossible. That is just the reality of it and not the right or wrong of it. The links are from 2020 and so far no news on any outcomes of the legal actions already started. That could take many years in some cases.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covi...n-lawsuit.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/coronavirus-...omes-1.5559520

Bob

The protection from suing over vaccine side effects started in the 80's. They did set up a fund for some compensation when people had injury, we know a family that their kid got vaccine injury that has left her functioning as a 3 month old. That was years ago, not COVID related.
Talking about it doesnt mean I or anyone else condones it. It's just the way things are set up.

I could see them getting in trouble if they acted maliciously, withheld and/or falsified data but overall they seem to be under the microscope with everyone watching so I doubt this will be an issue.

Just put yourself in Big Pharma's position. You make a vaccine that hasn't been given the normal safety protocols and is rushed through and YOU are liable for issues arising out of it's use.

The simple fact is without immunity there wouldn't be a vaccine for another 5 years or so.

It's like the Govt asks you to design an experimental aircraft and approves it bypassing all the safety inspections and air worthiness protocols and you sell it and it crashes killing everyone on board. Then you get sued?

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Just put yourself in Big Pharma's position. You make a vaccine that hasn't been given the normal safety protocols and is rushed through and YOU are liable for issues arising out of it's use.

The simple fact is without immunity there wouldn't be a vaccine for another 5 years or so.

It's like the Govt asks you to design an experimental aircraft and approves it bypassing all the safety inspections and air worthiness protocols and you sell it and it crashes killing everyone on board. Then you get sued?

Thank you very much

We should be able to sue the pharma companies if we feel they have done wrong, but the pile of money required to take them on would be astronomical

This is again turning into a gotcha thread like the one that was deleted. Few observations before I depart.

A. These vaccines were not rushed. They have been in the making, the technology is not new, companies like Moderna, names comes from the word mRNA, were established years ago. Moderna in 2010. They have been working on vaccines, mRNA etc. That's the reason why they were able to make these so quickly, they didn't fall from the sky.

B. We know that some people will have a reaction to vaccines. Why? Well parts of viruses sometimes resemble our own proteins and can trigger an autoimmune reaction for example. You can get GBS, Guillain Barre syndrome, from the flu shot. Well you can get it from the flu itself, the common cold etc. A viral illness can trigger it.

I have to say when I read how many members here went ahead and got vaccinated, it honestly makes me happy. There is no reason to risk dying from this shitty virus and doing something to protect yourselves is the way to go. I didnt get vaccinated for altruistic reasons, I did it to protect myself.

Originally Posted by Tathra11

We should be able to sue the pharma companies if we feel they have done wrong, but the pile of money required to take them on would be astronomical

Watch late night TV. It's filled with Attorney Ads for various drug related issues. Drug outfits are sued all the time and successfully in class action lawsuits. Think silicon breast implants and J&J Talcum powder to name just two. It's done all the time but you gotta prove negligence.

Originally Posted by alex1921

This is again turning into a gotcha thread like the one that was deleted. Few observations before I depart.

A. These vaccines were not rushed. They have been in the making, the technology is not new, companies like Moderna, names comes from the word mRNA, were established years ago. Moderna in 2010. They have been working on vaccines, mRNA etc. That's the reason why they were able to make these so quickly, they didn't fall from the sky.

B. We know that some people will have a reaction to vaccines. Why? Well parts of viruses sometimes resemble our own proteins and can trigger an autoimmune reaction for example. You can get GBS, Guillain Barre syndrome, from the flu shot. Well you can get it from the flu itself, the common cold etc. A viral illness can trigger it.

I have to say when I read how many members here went ahead and got vaccinated, it honestly makes me happy. There is no reason to risk dying from this shitty virus and doing something to protect yourselves is the way to go. I didnt get vaccinated for altruistic reasons, I did it to protect myself.

As said, I have had the first Moderna shot and 16 weeks later i will get the second one, although after 16 weeks I can't help feeling I might as well be getting another first shot!

I do feel that I would like to address your comment that these vaccines were not rushed.

You obviously know what you're talking about and certainly more than me but, I firmly believe that the vaccines absolutely were rushed.

If these vaccines were a long time in the making, why did Trump throw so much money at developing vaccines and start Operation Warp Speed.

Why did the trials only begin during Operation Warp Speed and why was it tested for 90 days before gaining Emergency Authorization so that phase 3 of the trials is being done on you and I.

Why, if the vaccines are so well tested and not rushed are they only now discovering some serious side effects that has resulted in a lot of Canadian Provinces not using one as the first shot anymore, and they still don't know how long the vaccines will last.

I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from getting vaccinated, like I said previously, I got Moderna myself.

I think that we have no choice but to get the shots if we want to see the end of Covid and get back to any kind of normality but i have to ask, if it were a shot to relieve backache, would it have been tested for 90 days and have emergency authorization for it's use, and if it did would you take it?

Well I was referring to the mRNA vaccines. As far as I am aware the serious side effects they are describing are seen in the Astra and J&J vaccines which are based on a viral vector.

Here is an article about mRNA vaccines:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/89998

Here is the NEJM one that was submitted by Pfizer:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

When people say rushed, how long of testing would be required so it wouldn't feel rushed? How many patients? What if Astra said, yeah in rare cases we see clots. Would you have said it wasn't rushed?

Let's say they gave this warning prior to vaccinating people, see below, even though no medication is ever tested on 20 mil people.
"Among more than 20 million people who have been vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK so far, 79 cases of rare blood clots with low platelets have been reported, as well as 19 deaths, said the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency. This equates to around one case per 250 000 people vaccinated—0.0004%—and one death in a million." BMJ 2021; 373 doi: https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n931 (Published 08 April 2021)

Just for comparison, when you get hospitalized you most likely will be placed on some sort of heparin injections to prevent clots. Patients are immobile, have infections, basically increased risk of DVT and PE. Some patients will get HIT which is a similar immune mediated low platelets and clots situation like the AZ and J&J vaccines are causing.
"HIT was diagnosed in 0.065% of inpatients, or 1/1500 hospital admissions."

1 in 1500 admissions to get HIT vs 1 in 250,000 to get something similar from a vaccine. We still use heparin.

Any medication you get, at home or at the hospital, procedures you name it. Everything has potential side effects.
If anyone feels that the 1 in a million risk of dying from the AZ vaccine is too much, then go with the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines or dont get vaccinated at all.