Thread: Pondering......

Originally Posted by mhenson

I find it funny that people (left or right) believe that taking away guns would solve this violence. If someone wanted to commit this level of evil, how would a law against guns prevent him/her (doubt her though) from doing so? In that thinking, that would mean we don't have illegal drugs in the US? The best thing to do is fight fire with fire, put armed guards at every school. It wouldn't stop a crazy person from trying to murder helpless people, but it would either eliminate or drastically reduce the body count. I also agree that the sensationalist media should not idolize the attacker.

I don't think taking away guns would fix the problem - I just don't think throwing more guns at it will.

I think the key is control. Glen mentioned it in another thread - he is a responsible gun owner and locks up his guns and ammunition (presumably in different places), is well-trained in their use and care, and takes the ownership of such potentially lethal instruments extremely seriously.

If you must have a country with a constitutionally ingrained "right" to bear arms, you should also take just as seriously the "responsibilities" that go along with such rights. I believe those responsibilities are enacted on an individual basis (eg Glen), but from what I can see there is a lot of scope left on a population basis for this kind of control to be implemented.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

I don't think taking away guns would fix the problem - I just don't think throwing more guns at it will.

I think the key is control. Glen mentioned it in another thread - he is a responsible gun owner and locks up his guns and ammunition (presumably in different places), is well-trained in their use and care, and takes the ownership of such potentially lethal instruments extremely seriously.

If you must have a country with a constitutionally ingrained "right" to bear arms, you should also take just as seriously the "responsibilities" that go along with such rights. I believe those responsibilities are enacted on an individual basis (eg Glen), but from what I can see there is a lot of scope left on a population basis for this kind of control to be implemented.

James.

Those two words don't play nice.

Would a law against guns make you feel safe?

I know that I could easily go find a bag, an 8 ball, hell even meth or crack but there is a law against them. I'm just saying that laws are not reality, it's a good idea, but we cannot control everyone.

You can expect the best, but be prepared for the worst.

Ill jump into this fray.
Im not against People having fire arms. We need them for Hunting, and Protecting our live stock, for that matter protecting your home. I dont want to see firearms taken way from people. What i would like to see is Laws like we have up here in the Canada for the safe storage of those fire arms so they dont get into the wrong hands. Here we Have to keep the gun locked up and with a trigger lock, the Ammo has to be store else wear.
Our Laws are not perfect by any means and if they really want the weapon they will get it, but i believe it helps.

Colin

Where I live it is not vampires, or zombies and they ain't characters in the movies. Real live thugs who would as soon kill you for a few bucks as look at you. The Circle K is a half mile from me. I pass by it daily. Had I been a customer, as I frequently am, in there that night I would have wanted my CCW on me. Would have had it too and things might have ended differently. So it isn't the occasional wacko that snaps that I am talking about although I'd rather be packing in an encounter with one of those than to be at their mercy.

Two men convicted in Circle K murders sentenced to life in prison | www.palmbeachpost.com

Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

Ill jump into this fray.
Im not against People having fire arms. We need them for Hunting, and Protecting our live stock, for that matter protecting your home. I dont want to see firearms taken way from people. What i would like to see is Laws like we have up here in the Canada for the safe storage of those fire arms so they dont get into the wrong hands. Here we Have to keep the gun locked up and with a trigger lock, the Ammo has to be store else wear.
Our Laws are not perfect by any means and if they really want the weapon they will get it, but i believe it helps.

Colin

Colin - you by no means have the right to own a gun in Canada. In Ontario anyway. Moreover the laws are so restrictive... to say they are for defense is a farce.

How are you going to convince any rational Judge in America that they should look to Canadian laws when your right to defend yourself with a gun only comes after you ask a would be wrongdoer to wait as you get to your safe - reach in - assemble - run to another room and load your weapon.

No self respecting American... well, lets just say, it wouldn't and shouldn't wash down here if the purpose of the right given is to defend oneself... just saying.

Originally Posted by earcutter

Colin - you by no means have the right to own a gun in Canada. In Ontario anyway. Moreover the laws are so restrictive... to say they are for defense is a farce.

How are you going to convince any rational Judge in America that they should look to Canadian laws when your right to defend yourself with a gun only comes after you ask a would be wrongdoer to wait as you get to your safe - reach in - assemble - run to another room and load your weapon.

No self respecting American... well, lets just say, it wouldn't and shouldn't wash down here if the purpose of the right given is to defend oneself... just saying.

I am afraid self defense of your home with a gun in Canada could be just plain illegal. There are laws governing where you can legally discharge a firearm and last time I looked your home ain't on the list. Then you have to consider whether you used excessive force when you shot and killed an unarmed burglar. That maybe considered some form of manslaughter/murder. The cards are very much staked against you in legal terms.

The recommended procedure is to dial 911 and hope they can spring some help away from the local donut hole. I might be exaggerating a bit but still it is a pretty bleak outlook.

Yea, that just will not wash in the USA.

Bob

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Out of all the discussions about this there have been exactly two ideas that have come out that I personally think have serious merit...

1. Withhold the name of the Shooters, give them nothing, no infamy just a unmarked grave in potters field (assuming they die)

2. Off duty police, at every school, perhaps not even visible, perhaps they sit in a back office watch video monitors all day, but they are there.. They can react much faster then anything else, just their pressence and perhaps their patrol car parked out front, is more of a deterrent to trouble then anything else...
Heck I hired off duty cops at every night club I ran for every busy night we had, it isn't hard to set up...

I've said the first bit for a while. I can't name a single Columbine or VT shooting victim but I can name the idiots who perpetrated the violence.
I'd rather the media focus on helping families heal and maybe even the psychological profiles of said perps. Skip the naming, though.
What a lot of people forget when these things happen is that the largest mass murders in the US have not involved guns.
The school bombing that was mentioned on Slate today. OKC had a whole lot of people killed with nothing but fertilizer, racing fuel and a box truck. The WTC stuff was a little bit of know how combined with a handful of box cutters. None of which are restricted.

Originally Posted by earcutter

Colin - you by no means have the right to own a gun in Canada. In Ontario anyway. Moreover the laws are so restrictive... to say they are for defense is a farce.

How are you going to convince any rational Judge in America that they should look to Canadian laws when your right to defend yourself with a gun only comes after you ask a would be wrongdoer to wait as you get to your safe - reach in - assemble - run to another room and load your weapon.

No self respecting American... well, lets just say, it wouldn't and shouldn't wash down here if the purpose of the right given is to defend oneself... just saying.

Your are totally right. As self defence its not pratical and BobH is right that i would probibly go to jail for killing the inturder.
But it is less likely for a person to just grab the fire arm and commit a crime.
As i stated its not even close to being a perfect system but i believe it does help.

Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

Your are totally right. As self defence its not pratical and BobH is right that i would probibly go to jail for killing the inturder.
But it is less likely for a person to just grab the fire arm and commit a crime.
As i stated its not even close to being a perfect system but i believe it does help.

I think it might help as well, but why even have a handgun then? Don't forget the whole handgun thing. I was asked a few times in Canada if I wanted to get one - but I couldn't understand the logic.

I love handgun shooting! Love it, but a handguns sole purpose to me is to kill people. I have no illusions of myself going out and hunting with one. A beautiful 30-30 lever, or a nice .260 is what I'll reach for - or my bow. So being that I need to dismantle it, and safe it makes it useless. Moreover, I expect I'll know when the Apocalypse is coming... in which case I'll grab that 30-30 again.

Moreover in Ontario, owning a handgun dictates that the RCMP can enter your house without a warrant at any time to make sure it's properly stored. That's not a freedom I wished to lose for my love of plinking with a handgun.

Yeah it's a whole different mindset and a whole different set of reasoning. But now that I type all that - I will say that if Rhynio's were not nearly extinct, heading out with a nice revolver and a set of cohones... that would be uh, killer LOL!!