Thread: Pondering......

If you like numbers:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub...9TARYPXesr0NGI

Originally Posted by earcutter

If you like numbers:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub...9TARYPXesr0NGI

This guy lost me in the first couple of sentences..... (135/day, CDC - Fact Sheet - Secondhand Smoke Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use) for those non-smokers who inhale secondhand smoke. ...... Hogwash !

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

This guy lost me in the first couple of sentences..... (135/day, CDC - Fact Sheet - Secondhand Smoke Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use) for those non-smokers who inhale secondhand smoke. ...... Hogwash !

Bahahahaahaha.... yeah well. Like anything, figuring out what a "fact" is, may be more of an art than a science! Oh man... I can't stop laughing lol!!

Hey I am not disagreeing lol - just finding the humor in it all, is all lol.

Our system in Canada allows police to enter your home without a warrant if you have firearms period, not just handguns. That is ostensibly to ensure you are following the safe storage regulations among other things. Even with all the regulations surrounding firearms in Canada we still manage to raise our own idiots and import a few too that still are willing to and have committed murders with firearms. There have been any number of incidents in such places as Toronto and Vancouver, to name a few, and every time the hue and cry is instantaneous for more gun control. Does it all sound familiar? Passing more and ever restrictive gun laws are a pacifier for the general public that allows everyone to feel good but does nothing to address the other underlying causes that contribute to people committing murder with guns. Not a well rounded approach to problem solving. IMHO we are at or past the point of diminishing returns that gun laws alone can provide. I am not saying it is bad here, there are plenty worse places, but paradise it ain't either.

Bob

I do like numbers David in fact numbers like that which come from Law Enforcement sources are the only ones I even read..
I liked the distinction between Homicide and Suicide rates and the Gang Related shooting stats too..

I still am trying to wrap my brain around this cat shooting 20 little kids, how can somebody that freaking sick in the head possibly get to be 20 years old and nobody noticed anything amiss..
His brother's statement early on was interesting "My brother has issues"

This reminds me of doing Teen Nights and After Proms at some of the nightclubs, we had a "No Gang Wear" dress policy at most all of them, and we were extra strict on special nights like this..
I can remember talking with pissed off Mom's at the front door, that were trying to explain to me that their little darlings were not Bangers and that it was simply a look that was popular.. I knew better, the kids knew better, but the Mom's were actually clueless...

It takes a serious denial to not see that your child is capable of doing an atrocity of this magnitude, how does the entire system miss something like this ?????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Be it a gun (today) or a sword (yesteryears) it is deeply ingrained in many American's psyche that without the 2nd Amendment we become Subjects it really doesn't make any difference whether it is true or not...

Thanks. I think this is what it really boils down to. Regardless of whether it is true or not, this (and the idea that violence is not a bad solution) is the difference between Europe and the US.

It's a bit like the witch hunts of the olden days. It doesn't matter that people couldn't fly around on broomsticks. The only thing that mattered (from a practical pov) is that people believed you could. The belief that it was possible, was real and ingrained in society and influenced many things.

Originally Posted by Bruno

(and the idea that violence is not a bad solution)

Not quite,,, but close

Most, and I say that cautiously, Americans believe that Violence is an option, might be a bad option, or a last restort but we don't eliminate it as an option...

We as a whole reserve the right to self defense, in fact our laws back it up, look at some of our laws "Stand your Ground" "Make my Day" "The Castle Law" all these are written to protect the act of Violent Self-Defense in many of our States..

The other thing that is rather hard for non-Americans to understand is the differences between our States too, look at the differences with Firearm laws between the seperate states...

Connecticut where this last shooting happened has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the 50 states, yet all those laws did nothing to stop this, the last number I heard was that this shooter broke 41 laws in CT before he actually shot anyone...

I agree that it would make sense to have an off-duty policemen on most school campuses.

They could have other duties such as community relations or teaching social studies. In other words it doesn't have to be sitting around watching a monitor waiting for the 1 in a million crazy guy to come by.

On the issue of looking at laws and gun usage...I think (just my personal opinion) that it's a good idea but it shouldn't be done primarily in reaction to school shootings.

It's either a good idea to prevent some abuses or it's not. The argument doesn't need to be whether another law would have prevented this last school shooting.

If there are laws that apply to gun shops that don't apply to gun shows then either change them for the gun shops or change them to include the gun shows.

If there is enough evidence/studies/persuasive arguments to convince decision makers that it's worth trying to reduce guns in general in our society or in certain cases then there is nothing wrong with considering that.

The conversation shouldn't be about there being no laws because criminals wouldn't follow them anyway.

That logic would apply to any and all laws regarding of subject matter.

I see guns being about protecting your house and with concealed carry in specific cases. I have no problem with most of the laws or lack thereof currently but I think an intelligent look around the periphery makes sense.

I think when everyone is armed all the time violence probably does go up. If all home owners are armed burglary (while people are home) probably goes down.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Oh, and by the way, there is no such thing as "statistical fact". I have been biting my tongue on this for years, but I have finally had enough.

Statistics are calculated from samples. Samples are a subset of a population and vary randomly from collection to collection. Because the samples vary, so too do the statistics calculated from them. The best you can do with a statistic is to offer a probability that they contain the "true value" (or fact) - inference about facts.

You want facts, go ask the Demographers.

James.

I beleive it was Han Solo who said it best "Never tell me the odds"..

Lots of arguments for and against. The the right to defend oneself and possess weapons polarizes opinion like no other. Most of the arguments produce a lot of heat, but not much in the way of light. Human nature being what it is, with people driven mostly by greed and self-interest rather than love and forgiveness, violence will always predominate. As every cynic knows, murder and war do not increase death.