Thread: Pondering......

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Jimmy that was put very politely..
Myself I would have said,, The difference between a Subject and a Citizen is the weapon in their hand..

Be it a gun (today) or a sword (yesteryears) it is deeply ingrained in many American's psyche that without the 2nd Amendment we become Subjects it really doesn't make any difference whether it is true or not...

The only difference between a Citizen per se, and a subject is "who rules". The rules and crap that come along with it are all the same.
From what you believe is a subject, what is so wrong about becoming so? Wouldn't you rather KNOW that if you wanted a change of government, it would happen by word of mouth, not action of fist. Look at the middle east, where needed the rest of the world (including where citizens are unarmed) provide help to break the government. Yes, in those cases violence was needed. It is important to note that the rest of the world is helping, and providing weapons. They didn't need to own them before the revolt.

I have been thinking about this whole discussion since Friday. My reason for wanting a firearm free USA, is because I don't believe allowing citizens the right to carry a potentially deadly weapon is sending the right message. It doesn't really matter that much to me what it is used for, the fact that they are around doesn't instil confidence. Allowing citizens to carry is sending the message "it is OK to use deadly force if needed". Whether or not people think this right, that is the whole reason I believe the amendment needs to be rescinded. The world is a very different place now, the dangers less severe.

Some chick almost ran me down in a parking lot yesterday. I was FURIOUS, and I mean livid. I had my step-daughter and wife with me, she could have hit them. She wasn't looking where she was going. Had I been home in the UK I would have banged hell outta her car until she stopped, then told her she needs to be more careful, look where she is going, do less than 20 mph in a parking lot, and not talk on her phone when she is driving. Here ... what if she thought I was threatening her life ... and was carrying a gun ... scary.

There are other ways to help the current violent crime. It does involve free healthcare. Before somebody plays semantics, "Free" means free at the point of need. "Free at the point of need" is the NHS mantra. When you need care you will never be required to pay for it, because it is already paid for. I think people misunderstand how the NHS works. People pay %10 of their income to a national insurance. This covers everything, except prescription drugs. They cost around 7 pounds, unless you can't afford them then they are free. This would help people who need treatment for mental illness seek it. They would be seeing a family practitioner regularly, and they could help spot problems.

The reason I RUN to disarming the American populous, is because I know this system would never EVER be instilled here. the absolute capitalist system of the USA doesn't want this, so the government will never be allowed to enact such a thing.

I admit that disarming people IS NOT the only way of fixing the problems of the USA, it's not even the best way. It's just that, sadly, the other ways of fixing things probably wouldn't even be considered here. Taxes would have to rise in order for that to happen.

Just a kind of aside. My wife's half sister has just emigrated to the UK. She comes from a family where her father owns many weapons. I believe he even had a grenade launcher at some point, and was a member of the NRA. He shoots the coyotes on his land, and I believe he is a responsible gun owner. His daughter has seen the system in the UK and is amazed that it works. The police don't need guns to be forceful, they need laws. The crazies are helped to be sane. In short, disarming a populous does work, but there are other things to be considered.

You and I are diametrically opposed in every way regarding guns.

Have you ever handled firearms, been to a gun range, or anything??

I only ask because it sounds as if you speak from the outside looking in. If ever you come to Houston, look me up and let's go spend an afternoon at the range. I believe I you will change your mind before you've finished the first mag.

Originally Posted by scap99

You and I are diametrically opposed in every way regarding guns.

Have you ever handled firearms, been to a gun range, or anything??

I only ask because it sounds as if you speak from the outside looking in. If ever you come to Houston, look me up and let's go spend an afternoon at the range. I believe I you will change your mind before you've finished the first mag.

So you think the feeling of shooting a weapon makes it OK to own one? I have fired an air rifle, hunting rabbits and birds. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I would ABSOFRICKENLUTELY LOVE firing a gun. LOVE with a capital EVERYTHING. Yet, I still feel that they can kill with the greatest of ease, weird huh?

I know I will fire a gun at a range, or hunting, whilst they are legal. I am going to do this. I don't think I should own a gun. I also think you should be allowed to hunt with a gun, or shoot at a range. I STILL don't think you should own one. In the UK you can go hunting with the weapons of an organization.

I am a fiery person, when somebody deserves it, I know I would lose it. When I lost it I would defend myself, very well. I also know that if I had a gun in my pocket (euphemism) I would use it. I don't want that to happen, so I don't/never will own a weapon. Most people believe they wouldn't lose it, and use their gun unnecessarily, this is something that can't be proven. Why take the risk?

I agree that we are diametrically opposed, and that's OK! The world would stop spinning without differing opinions.
I think I come across as an ass sometimes, and I don't mean to, I just feel strongly about the death of innocent people. Whether or not my views are right or wrong ... they are what I believe would work, just as you do yours.

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

So you think the feeling of shooting a weapon makes it OK to own one? I have fired an air rifle, hunting rabbits and birds. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I would ABSOFRICKENLUTELY LOVE firing a gun. LOVE with a capital EVERYTHING. Yet, I still feel that they can kill with the greatest of ease, weird huh?

I know I will fire a gun at a range, or hunting, whilst they are legal. I am going to do this. I don't think I should own a gun. I also think you should be allowed to hunt with a gun, or shoot at a range. I STILL don't think you should own one. In the UK you can go hunting with the weapons of an organization.

I am a fiery person, when somebody deserves it, I know I would lose it. When I lost it I would defend myself, very well. I also know that if I had a gun in my pocket (euphemism) I would use it. I don't want that to happen, so I don't/never will own a weapon. Most people believe they wouldn't lose it, and use their gun unnecessarily, this is something that can't be proven. Why take the risk?

I agree that we are diametrically opposed, and that's OK! The world would stop spinning without differing opinions.

After popping off a few rounds you realize the levity of what you have in your hands.

Believe me, knowing how to fight or shoot makes one approach situations differently than someone that is untrained.

Training equals cooler head in sticky situations.

Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven

The only difference between a Citizen per se, and a subject is "who rules". The rules and crap that come along with it are all the same.
From what you believe is a subject, what is so wrong about becoming so? Wouldn't you rather KNOW that if you wanted a change of government, it would happen by word of mouth, not action of fist. Look at the middle east, where needed the rest of the world (including where citizens are unarmed) provide help to break the government. Yes, in those cases violence was needed. It is important to note that the rest of the world is helping, and providing weapons. They didn't need to own them before the revolt.


You really don't understand do you, no matter how we explain it The Bill of Rights is just beyond your comprehension,,, Must be a cultural difference

I have been thinking about this whole discussion since Friday. My reason for wanting a firearm free USA, is because I don't believe allowing citizens the right to carry a potentially deadly weapon is sending the right message. It doesn't really matter that much to me what it is used for, the fact that they are around doesn't instil confidence. Allowing citizens to carry is sending the message "it is OK to use deadly force if needed". Whether or not people think this right, that is the whole reason I believe the amendment needs to be rescinded. The world is a very different place now, the dangers less severe.


And there is the cultural difference pointed out for all to see,,,As Americans we do reserve the right to use Deadly Force, it really is just that simple isn't it,

Thank you for being so upfront about how you feel, here we call it "The Victim Mentality" or "Sheeple" not for me, no matter how you try and package it

Originally Posted by scap99

After popping off a few rounds you realize the levity of what you have in your hands.

Believe me, knowing how to fight or shoot makes one approach situations differently than someone that is untrained.

Training equals cooler head in sticky situations.

Well I am well trained in self defense. I just inherited a weird "lose it" thing. My mum, and other relatives from her side are just the same.
Regarding training ... even cops make mistakes, and I am pretty sure (or I damnwell hope) they are pretty well trained.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Thank you for being so upfront about how you feel, here we call it "The Victim Mentality" or "Sheeple" not for me, no matter how you try and package it

I don't think it is beyond my comprehension ... I think it is outdated. You are a Sheeple lol, you own guns because the other sheeple do, and the first sheeple said it was OK to do so. Had they not said it was OK you wouldn't own a gun. Most peoples use militia/weapons to gain freedom and then abandon weaponry at some point in civilization.

Regarding "Victim mentality", I am a successful individual, and I take ownership for everything I do. I am a most positive person. I think this idea that you are a victim if you don't own a weapon is ridiculous.

"And there is the cultural difference pointed out for all to see,,,As Americans we do reserve the right to use Deadly Force, it really is just that simple isn't it, "

YES!! you got it. That isn't OK. Nowhere else in the civilized world is it taught that killing is an OK thing to do. Following that, nowhere else in the civilized world has the volume of deadly incidents that the USA has.

USA 0.03 murders with firearms per 1000 population - teaches to defend using deadly force.
UK 0.0002 murders with firearms per 1000 population - Human Right to life
South Africa 0.6 murders with firearms per 1000 population - teaches to defend using deadly force.
Germany 0.003 murders with firearms per 1000 population - Human Right to life

I think Germany allows it's citizens to own guns, I could be wrong.

For those wondering ...

Murder stats - http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-with-firearms
Population stats - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Thank you for being so upfront about how you feel, here we call it "The Victim Mentality" or "Sheeple" not for me, no matter how you try and package it

That just gave me goose bumps....