Thread: Ammo Shortage

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

A great example of the effectiveness of gun laws is the federal statutes on owning fully automatic weapons. When first introduced the Thompson sub machine gun was available to any who wanted one in sporting goods stores around the country. The "Kansas City Massacre" and the St, Valentines Day Massacre to an extent prompted the federal licensing of fully automatic weapons in like 1933. Point being that the criminals from the lowly gang banger to the mafia seem to have no problem getting hold of machine guns in every city in the country.

Actually, this is an excellent example of the ineffectivness of gun laws, which is I guess what you mean.


In point of fact, most of the gang violence is committed with guns not covered by the National Firearms Act of 1934 or the Assult Weapons ban. They are committed with regular pistols that wouldn't be banned except under the most draconian gun laws. And even with the new law in place, gun violence did not diminish untill the end of prohibition.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Purely looking at 2nd, you have a point.
But from a (mine) practical point of view, there are some types of guns that citizens should not have. Abrams tanks... Hellfire missile defense... Mounted gatlings as found on ships...

The problem with what you're saying from an historical perspective is that when the 2nd ammendment was written, the citizenry could own the same types of arms as the army had. The rifle was the assult weapon of it's day. The framers of the Bill of Rights saw no need to hobble the people with less firepower than the armed forces had.

So in order to have a society that does not implode in civil war or in which nutters can take out an entire city, there have to be some restrictions. And imo, and this is purely personal, I draw the line at fully automatic guns. As long as you need to pull the trigger for each shot, guns are manageable from a law and order point of view. Just my 2ct.

What you're suggesting is something referred to as "Prior Restraint" here in the US (I'm not sure if you have the same legal term for it where you live). This is placing a limit on someones activity because they may commit a crime by that activity. For example, restricting someones free speech because they may use that right to incite a riot. Another example would be to ban the private ownership of automobiles because you might drive onto a playground full of kids and kill them. The problem with this is that it can be used to curtail all manner of freedoms. Simply owning a thing does not make it likely that you will commit a crime. A person can't be punished for a crime that they have the opportunity to commit, only one which they commit.

Also, as far as the 2nd goes... The French did not have a 2nd when they started revolting. The Eastern Germans didn't. Your founding fathers didn't. The black panthers didn't... yet somehow they all succeeded.



See. However likely it is, we agree on something: either you wear it, or you lock it.

Our founding father didn't need a second ammendment as they were already armed. The black panthers DID have the second ammendment. If you look at most of the strict gun laws in California, they were a result of the (mostly white) government trying to disarm the black population. Same in most southern states. The laws passed during the Klan made it illeagle for a man to carry a conceiled weapon. These laws were only enforced on freed slaves.


Edit; If you feel like a reading a not-too-terribly long article on the history of gun control and racism in the US, here's a link

http://www.lizmichael.com/tahmasse.htm

It's worth a look

Originally Posted by zib

Are any Firearm Enthusisat's, mainly in the US here, having trouble finding rounds? I would buy ammo where ever it was available, Normally, Cheaper than dirt, or online, Even Wal-Mart to some extent. I don't like buying it at the range, as I feel the prices are inflated, but lately, there seems to be a run on Ammo due to the Obama administration. Anyone else feeling the pinch. I recently started vacuum sealing ammo. I have that food vacuum sealer, and thought it'd be a good idea to seal some of the high dollar rounds I have a bulk of, like Win SXT's, stuff like that....

I read an article somewhere, I read all the time, where people were bying ammo and guns at an alarming rate because the general thought was that a democratic White House would start changing gun laws, makeing some things unavalible or in limited supply. This could be what you are running into; exceptionally high demand do to a situation that the White House is currently unwilling to persue.

Originally Posted by joesixpack

Actually, this is an excellent example of the ineffectiveness of gun laws, which is I guess what you mean.


In point of fact, most of the gang violence is committed with guns not covered by the National Firearms Act of 1934 or the Assult Weapons ban. They are committed with regular pistols that wouldn't be banned except under the most draconian gun laws. And even with the new law in place, gun violence did not diminish untill the end of prohibition.

Yes that is what I meant. NY's Sullivan law another case in point. That old bumper sticker that said."When Guns Are Outlawed Only Outlaws Will Have Guns" is still true.

For those of you that think we RKBA fools are wrong about the gun grabbing, Google: Blair Holt HR 45.... it is out there

Well, I have the perfect solution to all this gun nonsense. The Govt should pass a law making it mandatory that every adult be required to carry a concealed gun. They should get training in High School and be issued a pistol. Of course there would be a lot of dead people around but what the hell. No different than cars look how many are killed in accidents and we're not talking about outlawing cars.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

...No different than cars look how many are killed in accidents and we're not talking about outlawing cars.

Yes, this is a very important point. Clearly, if the goal is to save lives, cars would be outlawed.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Well, I have the perfect solution to all this gun nonsense. The Govt should pass a law making it mandatory that every adult be required to carry a concealed gun. They should get training in High School and be issued a pistol. Of course there would be a lot of dead people around but what the hell. No different than cars look how many are killed in accidents and we're not talking about outlawing cars.

I want to know when the last time you were on an Interstate Highway next to a teenager, we already have driving classes that are manditory and what good results these classes are getting?!? No, gun control should be taught at home by those that want to pass along the knowlage and who have the desire to see that these things are cherrished and that the "rules" are passed along and not over looked!

Thank you Glen for being at the forefront on this one. I believe the citizen should be able to posess any weapon that the an infantryman can carry. Wether it be full auto or a grenade or grenade launcher, or even a rocket launcher. This may seem to be absolutely over the top to most of you, but then again what is the purpose of the 2nd Article of our Constitution. Lets not forget the lessons of 1776. A patriots foremost responsibility is to protect his country from its government. I gotta go, theres a black van pulling up in front of the house.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

For those of you that think we RKBA fools are wrong about the gun grabbing, Google: Blair Holt HR 45.... it is out there

HR 45 is not likely to pass, thank goodness. It is so sweeping that the DNC feels that if it were to pass, the backlash would lose them control of the house in the upcoming midterm elections. Even the National Shooting Sports Foundation (actually, a group of gun grabbers trying to seem like a pro-2nd ammendment group) doesn't want to endorse it.

The sad and stupid thing about the "Blair Holt" bill is that it would have done nothing to save the life of Blair Holt, the teen ager who it is named after. Aparently, it's already illegal bring a handgun onto a school bus, and it's illegal to shoot people on a schoolbus too. Who knew?