Thread: Ammo Shortage

Originally Posted by gratewhitehuntr

yes it does
these people are called criminals
carjackers
rapists
home invaders
robbers
murderers

"defense ammo" are the munitions most well suited to ending their miserable stinking lives.

The people who I am referring to are not criminals until they start shooting the guns they purchase legally. The issue is not that bad people get illegal guns. The issue is that people are unreliable. It is always the same story. It only takes a few assholes to ruin it for everyone. It is not the responsible gun owner that is the problem. It is the Colin Fergusens and Douglas Penningtons and George Zinkhans and Seung-Hui Chos and Dylan Klebolds and Eric Harrises and Charles Whitmans and Robert Floreses and Peter Odighizuwas and James Kellys and the rest of the whackos that are driving the efforts to control gun ownership.

yes yes


I have house insurance

do you?

shouldn't everyone?




I have life insurance (because I have a family)

do you?

shouldn't all heads of family have life insurance?



I have a fire extinguisher

do you?

shouldn't everyone?




I also have a crazy person extinguisher

do you?

shouldn't everyone?

I don't see it as meaningless at all. If your issue with the easy access to guns is as a result of your concern for the safety of children, then you should focus on the things that actually are dangerous to them.

But your point is really "No one tries to assult someone with a swimming pool. These are accidental deaths, not criminal acts." And I would agree with you there as well, so I'll make another comparison. More children are killed by abusive parents every year than die in gun violence. Parenting is still pretty unregulated though, and while there has been a real effort on the part of society to protect children from abusive parents, no one has ever seriously suggested the idea of prior restraint for potential parents.

Have children taken guns to school and used them to murder their classmates? Yes. Is it a horrible crime? Yes. But horrible crimes tend to result in horrible laws. I don't want to see anything like Colombine ever happen again either, but increasing the restrictions on firearms will not prevent these crimes from happening. As a number of people here have already stated, it's already Illegal to murder someone. There are plenty of laws in place that seek to prevent that. Adding another law that makes it illegal to bring a gun to school won't stop someone who is already intending to commit a crime.

I don't look at gun crontrol laws as evil, and I don't think that thew people who advocate them are evil either. People want to prevent bad things from happening to children, or anyone else for that matter. Hell, so do I. But making it harder for me to buy a gun won't make anyone safer. There were already laws in place to prevent Kleebold and Harris from doing what they did, but they managed to break those laws before they fired a single shot. Those guys committed numerous felony violations of state and federal law, including the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968, even before the massacre began.

Sorry, this is a long post.

Originally Posted by Mike7120

I was lucky enough to snag three 200 round Remington .233 value packs at Wally World last week.

I haven't seen a box of .45 ACP around here in about 2 months. I wanted to shoot my Kimber so bad today, so I broke down and used some of my defense ammo for target practice.

I know what you mean, I live in Florida, I've been wanting to take out the Springfield XD45, but don't want to break into stash ammo....I have lot's of PD ammo, Ranger SXT's, Gold Dot, Hornandy, and Even have a box of Talon's, for the range, I usually shoot that Blazer stuff, Is it CCI or something like that. They have non reloadable, and Blazer Brass which is...

Originally Posted by icedog

Defense ammo? What is that?

I don't see the gun issue as a political one. I am a Democrat but I love firearms. I have said it before. I believe we should be able to do anything we want as long as we don't interfere with anyone else's life, liberty or pursuit of happiness. The problem is that people get guns and then go and kill innocent people. It seems to happen quite frequently. Kids in schools on rampages are a very frightening thought for a parent who has kids in college across the country.

Defense Ammo usually refers to the type of bullet. Normally a serated tip, designed to expand like a flower, shredding once in. Usually a "Hot Load" meaning more gunpowder than normal. You may remember hearing about "Black Talon's" a while back. The damage done by those rounds was so bad, Doc's couldn't do much with the victims...Now you have stuff like, Ranger SXT, Gold Dot, Hydra Shock, And TAP, all personal defense rounds.
More expensive per box than normal rounds....

Originally Posted by joesixpack

I don't see it as meaningless at all. If your issue with the easy access to guns is as a result of your concern for the safety of children, then you should focus on the things that actually are dangerous to them.

But your point is really "No one tries to assult someone with a swimming pool. These are accidental deaths, not criminal acts." And I would agree with you there as well, so I'll make another comparison. More children are killed by abusive parents every year than die in gun violence. Parenting is still pretty unregulated though, and while there has been a real effort on the part of society to protect children from abusive parents, no one has ever seriously suggested the idea of prior restraint for potential parents.

Have children taken guns to school and used them to murder their classmates? Yes. Is it a horrible crime? Yes. But horrible crimes tend to result in horrible laws. I don't want to see anything like Colombine ever happen again either, but increasing the restrictions on firearms will not prevent these crimes from happening. As a number of people here have already stated, it's already Illegal to murder someone. There are plenty of laws in place that seek to prevent that. Adding another law that makes it illegal to bring a gun to school won't stop someone who is already intending to commit a crime.

I don't look at gun crontrol laws as evil, and I don't think that thew people who advocate them are evil either. People want to prevent bad things from happening to children, or anyone else for that matter. Hell, so do I. But making it harder for me to buy a gun won't make anyone safer. There were already laws in place to prevent Kleebold and Harris from doing what they did, but they managed to break those laws before they fired a single shot. Those guys committed numerous felony violations of state and federal law, including the National Firearms Act and the Gun Control Act of 1968, even before the massacre began.

Sorry, this is a long post.

Either you are intentionally missing my point or I am not communicating clearly enough.

This gun thing for me is moot. I happen to like guns. I am trying to explain what the issue is for the people who want to make it difficult to own guns. It has nothing to do with swimming pools(I still don't understand why you would throw that out). It is the ease with which people who may trip off the line and run amuck can obtain firearms. There is a law enforcement system in place that is supposed to protect us and for most people it works well. I have no fear that would justify my having a loaded weapon in my home and I hope most people feel the same way. But here's another case of a kid who grabbed his father's legal handgun and brought it to school:
Welcome to Charter.net - News
People who want more gun control want to know how to stop this sort of thing. Any ideas?

Originally Posted by icedog

Either you are intentionally missing my point or I am not communicating clearly enough.

This gun thing for me is moot. I happen to like guns. I am trying to explain what the issue is for the people who want to make it difficult to own guns. It has nothing to do with swimming pools(I still don't understand why you would throw that out). It is the ease with which people who may trip off the line and run amuck can obtain firearms. There is a law enforcement system in place that is supposed to protect us and for most people it works well. I have no fear that would justify my having a loaded weapon in my home and I hope most people feel the same way. But here's another case of a kid who grabbed his father's legal handgun and brought it to school:
Welcome to Charter.net - News
People who want more gun control want to know how to stop this sort of thing. Any ideas?

How about better parenting???

I think the point that josixpack is trying to make is this:

-it was illegal for that kid to carry that gun
-it was illegal for him to shoot that gun at the teacher
-it was probably illegal to have a gun on school grounds

What more do you need in terms of gun laws? The LAWS are there but we each have a responsibility to help keep them enforced. The father in this case maybe should have kept it in a locked safe with a combination that only he knew, knowing he had a child around. His bad. Not the law's. If a man or child wants to break a law, he will do it however he can. The father legally owning a gun didn't cause this crime or even (dare I say) make it worse. That kid would have found a way to do what he did regardless.

Insane trumps illegal every time. The laws are clearly immaterial to someone who is willing to shoot strangers, let alone loved ones. The issue is that to people who don't have guns, there is no reason to have a gun and it is too easy for a nut to kill people with a gun. This kid in Louisiana had easy access to a piece in it clearly facilitated his attempted murder/suicide.

Originally Posted by icedog

The issue is that to people who don't have guns, there is no reason to have a gun and it is too easy for a nut to kill people with a gun.

Right- and with the laws that are in place already there, I think there is nothing more that can or should be done besides enforcement of them. Arguing why guns are good and why we should be able to own them is like arguing religion with a religious extremist- the beliefs are already ingrained and cannot be displaced even with empirical evidence.

So with that said- better parenting would have played a huge role in the prevention of gun use in terms of the above crime. That would go a long way towards a pro-gun argument... if that particular gun hadn't been available to that child- but therein lies the catch 22. No law should have been in place to prevent it- just common sense on the part of the owner... but how to teach that common sense to ALL owners without a law...

"It is the...Dylan Klebolds and Eric Harrises...and the rest of the whackos that are driving the efforts to control gun ownership."

Icedog


It is a Federal Statute, I can't immediately remember which one, that states it is a felony for any person under the age of 21 years, to POSSESS a handgun. For those two losers to have a handgun in their possession was a Federal Offense. As someone already stated, they had violated several Federal Laws BEFORE they got to the school that day.
I hold a Kentucky Concealed Carry Permit. I have for around twelve years. Before I got it, I was subjected to an extensive State Police Background Check. This is standard, for the issuance of a Kentucky Permit. Everyone is checked out.
Kentucky enacted "Shall Issue" about fifteen years ago. In that time, I don't think a single Permit holder has committed a gun crime.
I was raised with guns in the home. I was taught early, all about gun safety. I have owned many guns through the years and I keep almost all of them locked in a Safe. Having a gun ON my person, has on two occasions saved me from being robbed and being subjected to a severe beating, if not worse. And NO I wasn't doing anything other than going about my business. I simply produced my legally carried pistol and the situation was immediately de-fused. Nobody got hurt and everyone went home safe and healthy. The last time I was facing four pretty good sized men in their early twenties, who wanted my wallet. We were in a men's room at the time. They came in behind me and were between me and the door.
Point being, JUDGMENT along with the Background Check means that some people are out in the world, who can do something in a bad situation, but they have the smarts to do it RIGHT.

Disclaimer: In all the years I have owned all those guns, NOBODY was ever hurt by any of them! In fact, Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns have ever hurt.


Jeeter