Thread: New Immigration bill is TREASON

Everything worked out offline between GW and me, and GW asked me to post a part of my PM here so that we can continue this discussion.

In Belgium the medical care (among other things) is supported largely by income tax. I am in a relatively high pay scale, and 40 - 45% of my pay is deducted before I even see the money.
This sucks, but otoh this includes pension savings and healthcare. Even going to the dentist is almost free unless you are having cosmetic work done. Same for most meds.

Basically, all of the things that you need in order to be able to simply live your life are very cheap. Sure, there are some problems and I would lie if I said that there are no individual situations that fall between the cracks of the system, but overall, things are pretty good here.

If we would get a large influx of illegal immigrants, this would cause problems because even though these people make little use of our facilities, they usually take money out of the system to send it home, and they don't pay income tax, meaning the circle of pay vs contribution gets broken.
This would cause problems for those of us who do live by the rules.

If these people would be legal, they would have to pay their income tax and there would be no problem, other than the fact that a small country like belgium can't sustain millions of new citizens of course.

Belgium has pretty strict immigration laws, though I admit I don't know them. A significant part of illegals exploit a couple of loophole though, which allows them to stay until certain procedures have been followed, and this can take years...

I fully agree with Lou's proposed list to handle things.

Hats off you Bruno and GW for handling things like gentleman. I'm glad it's all worked out.

Well done to GW and Bruno for reaching out via PM's and sorting things out!

Now, back to the issue at hand...

Originally Posted by azjoe

AFAIK, the quotas of people allowed to immigrate each year are roughly based on the US economy growth... the intent being to make sure they will be able to find employment here when they arrive. The ease with which illegals can cross our borders completely disrupts any semblance of sanity in this.

Interesting! I never new this....and I agree that any lack of border security totally negates the original concept.

Originally Posted by Azjoe

It's hard to decide what to do for an immigration bill. Personally, I think it's all about what do you do with the the kids...

I don't think there would be much issue about deporting the adults if kids weren't involved. But almost every illegal from Mexico has kids... and many of these kids were born here (hence, they are citizens of the US)... so what do you do with the kids if you deport the parents? You can't deport the kids since they're US citizens. Their parents can't take them with them because they're US citizens (who would need to immigrate to Mexico). Catch-22.

I'm not sure...I believe it varies from country to country...but the kids are likely dual citizens.....ie citizens of both their parents birth country AND the US. This should resolve the need for the kids to Immigrate to their parents home country, but also raises the sticky issue of deporting American citizens. I've always looked askance at the law that says ANY child born on US soil is automatically a citizen.....is that common amongst ALL countries? I doubt it, but I don't know for sure. Once again, I have NO PROBLEM with the children of LEGAL immigrants (whether naturalized US citizens, or Permanent Residents) being granted citizenship. For me, it's the permission issue. If you're granted permission to enter the country, then you have rights. If you're not....then you don't.

Originally Posted by Azjoe

.....I think our priorities are wrong. We need to change some laws to stop the incentive to coming here illegally... IMHO, the laws need to be changed to discriminate against children born to illegal alien parents... if you're illegal, your kids are illegal even if born here. If one parent is legal, then the kids born here are legal. Then, let the deporting begin... illegals be gone! At the same time, we need to beef up border enforcement. And then we can address the 12-million already here who are caught up in our current quagmire.

just my $.02

Well said!

Well, there you go, a million dollars worth of advice for only $.02....


...GEEZ! I love shaving forums!

-whatever

-Lou

Originally Posted by Bruno

If these people would be legal, they would have to pay their income tax and there would be no problem, other than the fact that a small country like belgium can't sustain millions of new citizens of course.

Now we come to the root of the problem.

Originally Posted by azjoe

Since most illegals don't pay taxes, they are a real drain on social services. They flood our school systems with their children (both the illegal ones they brought with them as well as the ones they have after they get here). Many of these kids require special education, they all require language training, and most get free breakfasts and lunches (often the only meals the child gets) and a host of social services that provide clothing, medical care, etc. The illegals typically live in a rented one-bedroom apartment or travel trailer that is shared by 3-4 families (maybe 5 adults and a dozen kids) so their tax contribution to support the services they receive is disproportionately low.

Much of this applies even to legal immigrants. Lets use Mexicans as an example.

I don't know ANY who own houses. They all live in apartments. ie. no property tax.
Low levels of income tax.
For Bruno and people without children I will include a link.
EIC Earned Income Credit
http://www.peoples-law.org/tax/feder...me_credits.htm

I went and checked one of my pay stubs and I will pay about $1500 in federal income tax for the year.
My wife pays roughly the same.
This means I get taxed at just about 7% of my income.

On our 2006 income tax return we got back $ 4,000.
We don't use any public assistance programs and the Feds still lost $1,000 on us.

Someone making less money and with more children could get even more back.
Those numbers at the link are just EIC money and not other parts of the return based on taxes payed.

These people almost all represent a net loss to the system.

GW,
Since you feel so strongly about the the immigration deal

Here is a deal on some ammo

These are $9.99 per mag (30 rounds per mag) no tax, and $9 shipping.

http://www.copesdist.com/ak47.htm

Happy shooting.

For all the illegals you will probably need about
5* (15 million illegals) = 75 million rounds ~ 2.5million magazines

2.5 million * $9.99 ~ $25 million + some miscellaneous cost . (A real cheap way to get rid of all the illegals is it not?)....

GW Good luck!!!!

These are mags, no ammo.

I'm not quite sure if you were poking fun or if this is a misguided attempt at support but I will give you a nice generic answer with some points to ponder.

You should feel strongly too.

You are the greatest threat to this nation.
Only you can prevent yourself from calling your state reps offices to tell them how you feel.
Only you can stop yourself from telling someone else to do the same.
Only you can keep yourself from reading a paper, turning on the news figuring our who is lying to you.
Only you can change the channel when the presidential cantidate debates come on.
Only you can turn off talk radio in favor of the song of the week.
Only you can make excuses about why you didn't vote.
Only you.

While you are at it just stop reading the forum.
Turn off your TV.
Put down the paper.

You are a spectator. Step aside.

no really....
step aside....
there is an illegal standing behind you !!

Don't forget

Only you can vote for Lou for president!!!

VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!
VOTE LOU!!





Whatever

Well, I'm totally against this bill. That being said there was an earlier post that said that people that rent don't pay property taxes. That is not totally accurate. They don't DIRECTLY pay property taxes. The owner of the building does, which he/she then passes along to the tenants as part of their rent.

/stickler for accuracey... ah, well, you know, LOL

J.