Thread: What are you working on?

Paul-As long as we're back on that dead horse and trying to ride it lol, yours is an interesting analogy to the pyramid, I think: people who play music by ear vs. classically-trained and relying on sheet music only. Our terminology is a little different: you refer to a system versus a method, whereas I talk about formula honing versus diagnostic honing. And I would lose a bet if it only works on Norton water-stones. I feel certain it would work on Naniwa and other stones, and maybe even better; it's just that 10 years ago, that Norton kit with the 4/8 k, 220/1k, flattening stone and pond was what all us new guys were getting.

I think it's cool that you are opening yourself up to learning new things about honing. Been doing it for 9 years myself, and I learn something new every time I sit down with some razors and stones. One of my bedrock beliefs as a teacher is that you're never done learning, about anything! (especially once you really go down the rabbit hole of natural finishers). If you're like me, you get bored easily, and ever so often you have to try that sexy new rock all the guys are talking about. For example, I was all about burnished Arkies for awhile, then I discovered the Zulu Grey (about 5 years after everyone else lol!). UPS Tracking says that aircraft carrier primitive cut black Arkie I ordered from Dan's is supposed to arrive tomorrow, so I feel certain that my Zulu will become the redheaded stepchild for awhile again.

But another cool aspect to that is that IME you will come back to a long-neglected hone with new skills that you've acquired since the last time you used it, and your edges will be that much better. I've had this happen several times.

If you really want to move beyond the pyramid and play by ear on that Norton 4/8k, watch a bunch of videos (as I still do!), and
assuming a properly set bevel from the 1k level, listen/watch/feel for when you're "done" on the 4k. Stroke counts can't tell you that (though about 45 seems to be my usual ball-park), but as you feel your blade gradually smooth out and under-cut water all the way across in both directions, you will be close. Then, as Marty suggests, lightly "kill" the edge on the side of your hone and do 10-15 more ultra-light laps. Some of us even like to strop off of each stone; assuming good technique, it can't hurt. I will also go out on my sunny deck with my Belomo 10x loupe and look at the edge after each stone if I really want to see what I'm doing at each stage.

Then, on the 8k look for similar signs, but of course your bevel planes will be near mirror polish, and your final laps should be ultra smooth as that edge really slices under the water all the way across. Maybe 25-45 strokes depending on steel hardness and any problem areas is a good ball-park. Kill it again, another 10-15 whisper light strokes, and strop.

That edge should be at least as good as your pyramid edge, and probably better once you've done it a few times. Then on to your 10-12k synthetic if you have one. I often like to shave-test a new edge after this point and see where I'm at. I almost always then finish on some kind of natural for smoothness.

But honestly, I enjoy the learning journey and the process as much as the finished edges. And finally, I'll just say this: Unless you hone for others (and take their money), don't worry too much what a bunch of internet know-it-alls (including me!) think of your honing methods. Another analogy: I like my $75 single-malt scotch with a few ice cubes; I paid my hard-earned money for it, and will drink it how I damn well please, though it makes some malt snobs cringe. Even more so with razors and honing. After all, there is nothing more personal than putting an edge you created on your skin to shave with. Enjoy the process, learn to trust your instincts on the hones, and have fun doing it. "There are many roads to sharp."

Originally Posted by Tjh

I like to round UP to 300
Good to know, though Thank you! I'm now only worried about that brown spot on the tail.

Ok, I can't quite figure out how to post full size images here, so here it is: https://photos.app.goo.gl/5uSt3hGJthdx9qw56

I think I would do some metal polish with it in the scales and hone hat bad boy up. Or if you want patina go straight to the hones.

PaulFLUS: I'm still learning myself so all I'll say is you are correct, the pyramid does get you a decent edge. I tried about a half-dozen times when I first started. It bugged me to go back to lower grits so frequently, but tried it and it worked. I stopped using it because I use tape, and changing the tape between grits was driving me buggy. Especially when you get to the low lap counts. Since I started staying on a stone I think I've developed a better feel of the blade on the stone, I still miss and have to go back to a lower grit, but staying on the same stone has helped me to learn by feel when an edge is done at a particular grit.

I've only used a black ark after the 8K, so I can't speak to any other stone, but when I get it right, it does noticeably improve the 8K edge and gives a really nice shave. I'll probably try some different finishers in the future, not because I don't like the edges I get, but because I like to learn new things and experiment with stuff.

If you enjoy the pyramid and it gives you results you like, stay with it. If you want to add more techniques to your skill set, jump in . It's fun to learn new stuff...or not.

Apparently SHD beat me to it (and more eloquently I'll add). I also like a couple of cubes in my scotch, brings out some of the aromas.

See Aaron, This is exactly what I'm talking about with the pyramid. I have spent so many years trusting that technique that I didn't really delve further into it and now I feel behind the eight ball. Don't get me wrong, it has served me well and I am glad I learned it because at the time I was struggling with one double-sided barber home trying to keep my one or two razors keen and didn't really know what to do past that until I got that Norton kit. I just started reading stuff and came across that and BAM all of a sudden I could get them dead keen to where it would give a DFS in one pass but I never really conceptualized it. I feel like I should be further along than I am. I certainly appreciate all the input for sure!

Thanks JJ. What I think the pyramid is good for is people who don't really know how to hone but they still need to shave. of course it may be better to send it out but not everybody has that option especially if you only have one blade to work with. My one piece of advice to anyone who does is don't let it get you in a rut because it did for me. I sort of differ from some people that I feel like you can learn honing sooner than the conventional wisdom but that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions

A-A-Ron, that looks like a nice bunch of scales.

Aaron and Paul, I think you are both right and I agree too. The pyramid worked but I too couldn't stand going backward. AND, When I used to drink Chevis Regal many years ago I liked mine shaken on ice. Some bartenders refused!

Learning all the experiences of honing different blades with the only system being to keep going up when your done teaches us a lot after some time. I recently found my issue with getting the heal right was not my honing, but my stropping. I was riding up on the stabilizer and not on the heal of the edge. This was keeping the little bit of pressure I use while honing on the stabilizer. It's the little things that will make you want to quit. Just keep after it and have a clear mind. OK, a somewhat clear mind.

I think it's funny that we spent decades in the modern world trying to make our lives easier. Now we've come to the point that they're too easy and we are going back to trends and hobbies that re-complicate our lives. See? Here we are going backwards again.

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I think it's funny that we spent decades in the modern world trying to make our lives easier. Now we've come to the point that they're too easy and we are going back to trends and hobbies that re-complicate our lives. See? Here we are going backwards again.

I would think that we are 'DE-complicating' our lives by doing hobbies, puzzles etc during these trying times.

But do I know-

Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

I think it's funny that we spent decades in the modern world trying to make our lives easier. Now we've come to the point that they're too easy and we are going back to trends and hobbies that re-complicate our lives. See? Here we are going backwards again.

Wow, you're getting deep tonight...Yes, things are "easier/quicker" due to technology, but are they better? I'm not so sure. I used to get ingrown hairs quite frequently with 5 blade carts and electrics...really annoying. Since going to DE/SR, I rarely get them anymore. The DE shave with brush instead of canned goo is just as fast as I used to to with carts. My SR shaves are decidedly slower, but I treat it as a "spa day". Just take my time on a weekend to treat myself to something special and relax/focus on something other than the worlds problems. There's also the pride and satisfaction involved with maintaining a "lost" skill.